Wednesday, 18 November 2009

  • Don't Act Like You Are Shocked !

    renoeric If there is one thing that is irritating , it is feigned shock. It is a insult of peoples intellect. How could anyone say with a straight face that they are "shocked" that the Holder Justice Department would make the decision to try Guantanamo Bay Detainees in New York City?

    Why do we ask for a resume ?

    Have you ever stopped and asked yourself why people ask for a resume from a prospective key employee? Why do we have a job applicant fill out a work history and give references? We do this because past performance is the best indicator of future behavior. Note I said behavior, not success. By looking at a resume we can see how a person performed under similar circumstances and formulate a judgment if that would be what we were looking for in a candidate for the position.

    In the case of Mr. Holder we had the unusual situation that he had actually served in the capacity of Deputy Attorney General. So did anything stand out during that period of service? Glad you asked !

    1. "Holder instructed his staff at Justice's Office of the Pardon Attorney to effectively replace the department's original report recommending against any commutations, which had been sent to the White House in 1996, with one that favored clemency for at least half the prisoners, according to these interviews and documents".  http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/09/nation/na-holder9
    2. "Eric Holder played a leading role in one of the most infamous events of a presidency filled with infamy: the pardon of billionaire fugitive Marc Rich". Time reported at the onset of the hearings:

      "But most see this as a source of bipartisan outrage. Republicans and Democrats alike were dumbstruck by the Rich pardon. The federal prosecutors who indicted Rich are especially livid, particularly because, by definition, Rich appears to be ineligible for a pardon: He never took responsibility for his actions or served any sentence...." Rep. Henry Waxman declared that it was a “bad precedent, an end run around the judicial process, and appeared to set a double standard for the wealthy and powerful” and that had a Republican president “presided over a pardon process that resembled the chaotic mess that seemingly characterized the final days of the Clinton administration, I would be outraged and would criticize it.”" Maureen Dowd remarked that on this one the Clintonsperverted the legal system and may have traded a constitutional power for personal benefit. … The Clintons ran a cash-and-carry White House. They were either hawking stuff or carting it off."   http://tinyurl.com/589pj2

    It is all in Eric's resume. So why are we the least bit surprised when the man changed justice department direction for FARQ, is changing it for GITMO detainees?

    But this is yet another one of the cases where our media failed to do any background investigation on Mr. Holder.  So what did Eric do after leaving the Justice Department? Again, glad you asked.  According to the New York Times Resume, Mr. Holder worked as a partner at Covington & Burling.

    If one is looking over a resume it is usual customary and reasonable to check it out. Especially if someone has gone rogue before ! So let's go check out their web site : http://www.cov.com/

    "On January 20, 2009, President Obama was inaugurated, and we said farewell to a number of our lawyers who answered his call to service.  Among them was our partner Eric Holder, who became the Attorney General of the United States almost sixty years to the day after Dean Acheson’s swearing in as Secretary of State. " http://www.cov.com/about_the_firm/firm_history/

    So we found the right firm, lets see what else is on their website.

    Guantanamo Bay Detainees

    • We represent sixteen men detained at the United States Naval Station at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.  Most of the men have been detained for approximately seven years.  None have been charged with any crimes, and none have been accorded the protections of the Geneva Convention.  In Boumediene v. Bush, 128 S. Ct. 2229 (2008), where we were co-counsel for eleven of the detainees, the Supreme Court held that the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus extends to detainees held at Guantánamo Bay.  Following that decision, we have been preparing for habeas corpus hearings to be held in federal district court Washington, DC, for eleven of our clients.
    • The firm has been involved in the Guantánamo related litigation for the last five years.  In addition to the on-going habeas corpus proceedings, our efforts have included: bringing cases for review of enemy combatant classification decisions in the D.C. Circuit under the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005; challenging the destruction of CIA torture tapes in federal court; filing amicus briefs and coordinating the amicus effort in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, 548 U.S. 557 (2006); filing amicus briefs in support of Supreme Court review in Moussaoui v. United States, 382 F.3d 483 (4th Cir.), cert denied, 544 U.S. 931 (2005); challenging the government’s practice of redacting information from documents given to security-cleared habeas counsel; and challenging the abusive medical and living conditions that the detainees experience at Guantánamo.

    http://www.cov.com/probonooverview/probono.aspx?show=morehighlights

    So after reviewing Eric Holder's past performance, who was unable to predict his future behavior? Who is "shocked" that a man who was a partner in a firm until January that  currently represents sixteen men at GITMO , has moved their trial to federal court? Read the section above again closely.

    I am not shocked in the least. Elections have consequences. Are you shocked? Or just plain _________ (fill in the blank) ?

Comments (34)

  • Irish_Russian

    No, not "shocked", but way past "irate"!

  • ProvokingThought

    @Irish_Russian - I changed it to a fill in the blank , I bet you can guess Irate wasn't what first came to mind.

  • DailyConstruct@revelife

    No, no shock at all. Just knew it was all going to be headed downhill for a while. These people have no decency. No count on how many ethical and moral standards they have breached and continue to breach. 

  • Irish_Russian

    @ProvokingThought - I'll spare you the profanity laden tirade.

  • Celtic_Wandering

    Not shocked at all. Actually expected all this. Which is very sad. 

  • pb49r

    It sure sounds like Holder has a conflict of interest (if anyone wanted to press the case:  his former law firm represents the accused?).

  • Romans_837

    Respectfully...

    In your opinion, what is the difference between a major crime, a terrorist attack, and/or an act of war?  
    For example...Case in point...OKC '95.  McVeigh drives a truck bomb to a federal building, lights the fuse, and walks away - killing 160+. 

    What's the difference between the Killeen cafeteria shooting spree, and the Ft. Hood shooting spree? 

    Is the answer simply "percieved motive?"
    -------------------------------------

    Not surprised that AG Holder would try them in civilian court...
    Just a tad concerned about KSM's confessions (from 9/11 to plotting against US interests in Korea...was it the truth, or 'anything to get out from waterboarding?')
    What is the US' proof against KSM? 

  • mrcolorful

    I can only think of one thing that would shock me for Obama & Co. to do and that is to admit that they are not omnipotent.  Sadly, I don't think that shock will occur anytime soon.

    @Irish_Russian - I second that tirade.

  • ProvokingThought

    @pb49r - @Irish_Russian - @AnamcharaConcepts - @DailyConstruct@revelife - 


    Here is a topper for the cake..feel free to run with it if you like, kind of busy with some other things:


    http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/10/07/the-obama-justice-departments-secret-blogging-team-is-it-illegal/


    @AnamcharaConcepts - I think after you understand no one really cares about the rule of law as it applies to the government, it is hard to shock.


    @pb49r - there used to be a standard of even having a appearance of a conflict you would recuse yourself. I had a judge recuse in a civil case over less than this.


    @Irish_Russian - it is beyond words many times .


    @DailyConstruct@revelife - their actions speak more about their mores than my words could ever describe.

  • ProvokingThought

    @Romans_837 - I gave a very long & detailed reply to your comment and I dont see it. I will try and reply later. One of the major components was venue

  • Romans_837

    @ProvokingThought - Thanks.

    I tend to agree with the theory that those who call their own actions jihad should not be treated as common crooks...but I"d like a stronger case as to why.

  • trunthepaige

    My new entry on the same subject with a different slant. This administration has just freed these men. By civilian law they have had their 5th and 6th amendment rights stomped on. In civilian court they will go free.  

  • radicalramblings

    My take on the Gitmo prisoners is this.  We need to decide if they are prisoners of war - subject to the Geneva Convention - or if they are civilians under arrest and subject to the rights protected in the constitution.  I'm not real particular which direction we go, but we need to pick one or the other.  It seems to me that we are trying to have our cake and eat it, too - picking and choosing what seems most convenient at the time.  And, given Holder's involvement with historical abuses of rights (google his involvement in Waco sometime), I am actually shocked that he would take steps towards trying them as civilians with the protection of the constitution.

  • firetyger

    No, I am not surprised.  This is why I have been so opposed to Holder in the first place...he is not the right man for the DOJ.

    Not shocked but very, very livid.  I'll hold my tongue for what I'd really like to say.

  • ProvokingThought

    @radicalramblings - actually he has made statements that they didnt have rights previously which makes me very suspect that he was intentionally lying or has been unduly influenced.


    If you want to try him as a civilian send him back to the battlefield he was captured in and try him there.

  • ProvokingThought

    @firetyger - I believe most share that sentiment Heidi, on all counts.

  • radicalramblings

    @ProvokingThought - I'm probably biased but, I'd go with intentionally lying.  Like you said - no surprise there.

  • ProvokingThought

    @Romans_837 - Ok, I have a little time now, so will take a shot at this again. BTW, good to see your input on this topic. Trust all has been well with you and yours.



    "In your opinion, what is the difference between a major crime, a terrorist attack, and/or an act of war?  "


    Citizenship and statements made.


    A terrorist attack and a act of war is very tough to differentiate other than a act of war is normally associated with a state entity. For instance the United States could technically declare a war on terror because the United State is a state, but that declaration is on a "preceived motive" of terror per se.


    Now take Timothy Mc Vey. "Either forgotten or distorted at the time was the connection between Oklahoma and Waco" It was called a terror attack. http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory71.html   ( I disagree quite a bit bt it is a view I want to disagree with)


    "The prime suspect in the bombing, Timothy McVeigh, has refused to cooperate with investigators. But people who know McVeigh, a decorated veteran of the Persian Gulf War, say he intensely hated federal law enforcement agencies, which he blamed for the deaths of more than 80 people in the 1993 raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. Investigators think that McVeigh timed the bombing to coincide with the second anniversary of the Waco raid.


    But some experts see little in the Oklahoma City bombing to suggest a terrorist's aim to “intimidate or coerce a government.” According to David Cole, a professor at Georgetown University's Law Center, “The Oklahoma City bombing was obviously a tragedy and terrible, but I don't see it as evidence of some conspiracy to engage in terrorism.”


    ".. the Oklahoma City bombing would not be considered terrorism under the U.N. resolution because bombings are not among the acts prohibited by U.N. conventions. “It is extremely difficult to get agreement on the distinction between dropping a bomb on a city from 20,000 feet as an act of war vs. driving a truckload of explosives into a building,” Jenkins says. “Bombs by their nature are indiscriminate weapons, and the issue is, why is it legitimate to drop a lot of bombs on a city, knowing full well that hundreds of thousands of innocents may be killed, but not legitimate to set off a bomb in a city in which scores may be killed?”"   http://www.cqpress.com/context/articles/cqr_terror_def.html


    I believe OK City was a act of war. It was not meant to terrorize. It was meant as retaliation for WACO


    What's the difference between the Killeen cafeteria shooting spree --In Killen I look at it as a crime--mental health issues--with suicide it was over and done with after the blood bath. This was a pay back is a b____ moment for him.


    , and the Ft. Hood shooting spree? 


    The fact it was on a military installation and that it was motivated over the war and its relation to Islam. There were similarites in age and being single, but in Kileen the man hated woman amd was one day goint to show people. In Ft. Hood it was ideological.


    Now the movement we declared war against "islamic jihadists" atypically are working either solo or in small fragmented groups. Is it a act of war since we have declared war on them?


    I think the beltway snipers on the other hand was true terrorism http://wjz.com/local/john.allen.muhammad.2.1289227.html


    Is the answer simply "percieved motive?"
    -------------------------------------


    Not surprised that AG Holder would try them in civilian court...



    Just a tad concerned about KSM's confessions (from 9/11 to plotting against US interests in Korea...was it the truth, or 'anything to get out from waterboarding?')
    What is the US' proof against KSM?   Well I think our best try to do anything  is as soon as he gets on us soil is to give him his miranda warnings and process him like we do anyone else is who arrested. It would be a "turning" over I guess. I do not see how the evidence can hold up on this, unless it is framed that he is just coming into custody and they are not going to rely on any evidence obtained from waterboarding.

  • SirDoc

    The only necessary test to decide if they should be tried by military tribunal is if they were captured on the battlefield by the military.   The USS Cole plotters should have been hung already. 


    I love the feigned deep thought about the subject which comes from the terrorist apologists who want the human feces at Gitmo set free.  Their mental masturbation brand of musings brought about by listening to the State Run Media, or the latest prison Islamic service are ignorant at best.

  • lonelywanderer2

    This does not shock me,  it only shocks me that it took this long for them to do so.  This entire regime is blessed with an incredible mix of arrogance, narcissism and naivete.

  • ProvokingThought

    @SirDoc - the Cole ones are going military commission


    http://www.mainjustice.com/2009/11/18/attorney-general-eric-holders-prepared-remarks-on-ksm-trial/


    this is sophomoric ideological bull shit on Holders behalf. It is also proof Obama doesnt have nut # 1 in his sack..excuse the french. You saw the video a few posts back..word is bond ..not. If not, check it out. Bet his wife b-slaps him

  • ProvokingThought
  • bluezbrewsbbqz

    Color me, "Just plain revolted, or disgusted"

    At minimum, Holder should recuse himself

  • phantomFive

    I am not complaining about the decision. Whether it was good or bad, it is guaranteed to give me many hours of fun entertainment.  As long as we can avoid starting any more wars with other countries, I will be satisfied.

  • ANT_L

    traitor is a word.   unfortunate to use, but sometimes appropos.  here, it is.  lets get back to the constitution.  defend the public welfare.  one of the ONLY reasons for government at all

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