Friday, 03 July 2009
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Did America ever consider itself a Judeo-Christian nation?
"Congressman Forbes asks the questions "Did America ever consider itself a Judeo-Christian nation?" and "If America was once a Judeo-Christian nation, when did it cease to be?" on the floor of the US House."
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Comments (22)
*sigh*
Let me know how this progresses through Congress. I don't see it going very far . . . but, perhaps God will surprise me.
the USA that I grew up in didn't even have the "christian" distinction. as a kid I presumed that all kinds of people live here, many of them unlike anyone I'd ever met before, so when I discovered that a friend was Jewish I didn't give it a second thought. I want to make it clear that such was my personal view, and as far as I could tell it was shared by everyone in the little dairy town of my youth. There were no people of any color other than white until the day a black family moved in down the road. While I have absolutely no memory of any bais expressed toward them, by anyone, it's possible that such may have happened unknown to me. Our church was the social center, and it was by being exposed to the missionary work of our synod that I learned about different cultures in different places. It was a quiet place. The school in town was shuttered from disuse, so we were sent to other parts of the county. It remained that way until the strangers began moving in. White strangers, buying up and moving into expensive homes that began constructing after the new interstate was completed. Now that little town is "an address", where the monied go to enjoy "quality of life".
I don't remember any mention, ever, of any "christian nation", or any speech that ever uttered a syllable against any other faith, "Judeo" or otherwise. I am made sick by this superficial and superfluous polarization. I think the senator has missed something; instead of asking if the USA ever considered itself a Judeo-Christian nation, perhaps his question should be asking when the USA became a money-elitist nation.
@Solarhead - OK - point by point:
1). "Judeo" includes your Jewish friend who moved in down the street. It doesn't "utter a syllable" against Judaism or any other religion - and neither did Congressman Forbes,
2). The speaker in the video is a representative, not a senator.
3). The fact that you consider Christian faith to be "superficial" and "superfluous" says volumes about you, and probably your little town.
And thank you for offering a sterling example of why we are where we are today.
well, please forgive my gaffe. How humiliating and humbling an experience it is to be anonymously castigated from so far away. I'll spare you anything about me that you couldn't and obviously don't know. Do you really dress like Captain America, or is always Hallowe'en, where you are? Are you as arrogant as this in person?
@Solarhead - I only seem arrogant to idiots. Which explains a lot in this circumstance.
what a moron...even obama admits on tape that it once was....@Solarhead - either you were raised under a rock or you might consider getting checked for alzheimer's..you look as old as i am and i distinctly remember learning about the christian underpinnings of this country, for example: webster (yeah, the dictionary guy) thought education could not be achieved without the bible and so did most of the founding fathers (many who were educated at seminary)....
and perhaps you should review the religous inclinations (or lack thereof) in many of the Founders. And gosh, what about this:
"Wall of Separation" between Church and StateThomas Jefferson, as president, wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
of Connecticut on 1802-JAN-1. It contains the first known reference to the "wall
of separation". The essay states in part:
"...I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people
which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation
between Church and State..."
During the 1810's, President James Madison wrote an essay titled "Monopolies"
which also refers to the importance of church-state separation. He stated in part:
"Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and Government in the
Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may
be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history."
The US Supreme Court has interpreted the First Amendment as if it requires this "wall
of separation" between church and state. It not only prohibits any government
from adopting a particular denomination or religion as official, but requires government
to avoid excessive involvement in religion.
And what any particular political authority has to say about whether the USA was a "christian nation" or not is opinion, as is what I've expressed here. I refrain from capitaizing "christian" for my own reasons. If you want to know what they are, message me, and we can have that as a separate conversation. In the meantime, you're welcome to go right ahead and call me any name you like. Doing so doesn't make you appear to be any more a fountain of wisdom than I am.
Why is it always Christian people who get blamed for polarizing our nation?! I have friends who don't believe what I do but we respect each other opinions. They have a right to be wrong.
I hope many view this video. Agree or disagree, the man makes a powerful case. Thanks for sharing this.
It's a very good video I stand with Congressman Forbes he did a great job!
I was not raised a Christian. My parents never attended church, nor did they ever talk about God, or Christ. I assumed that Christmas was for getting really cool stuff because I always did get really cool stuff. Easter, the same thing. I also attended a public school. Now, I'm only 39--born in 1970. But I grew up in an age that we prayed the Lords Prayer everyday before the bell, and before the pledge. I grew up, without knowing exactly who God was, but I had a deep understanding of our Christian heritage. It was taught to us all throughout school. Consequently, I learned a deep respect and felt very strongly for the patriot roots of this country with a good understanding of how faith was a vital part of it all. Now--at almost 40, as a Christian--I won't argue with those who choose to eliminate our freedoms by choosing to remain ignorant of our nations history. The last vestiges of freedom and liberty are with us. The true patriots of this nation are of no opinion that our history has to be systematically and educationally white washed to promote "change". I beleive that we the people, will fight to the very end to retain what rightfully belongs to us as a matter of heritage. There was a reason that Thomas Jefferson said "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants". I don't imagine that the time is far off now
@Solarhead - everyone always trots out the same four founding fathers who were not as vocal in their christianity as all the rest were...puhlease, the vast majority were extremely vocal about their christian roots...separation of church and state meant the government could not officially sanction/sponsor a religion..it did not mean that the tenets of christianity were not to be used in all aspects of governing...
Was Patrick Henry a Christian? Here are the words he wrote shortly before his death: "I have disposed of all my property to my family. There is one thing more I wish I could give to them, and that is the Christian religion. If they had that and I had not given them one cent, they would be rich. If they have not that, and I had given them the world, they would be poor."
How about our first Chief Justice John Jay? He stated that when we select our national leaders, if we are to preserve our Nation, we must select Christians. "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." Boy, what a far cry from what we have today. Our government now, from the top down, seems to consist of a bunch of lying, cheating thieves who should be ashamed of themselves for even considering a job in PUBLIC service.
On July 4,1821, John Quincy Adams, son of John Adams and sixth U.S. President, said "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
He was also the chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most important role.
In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."
William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." He is quoted as saying:
"The Christian religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our notions on character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible I make no apology."
Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first. Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the scriptures:
"Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let everyone seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)." For over 100 years, more than 50% of all Harvard graduates were pastors!
more from this author can be found at.. http://www.thedailywar.net/
@tialoca_talks - Game. Set. Match.
@SwordAndSacrifice - @SwordAndSacrifice - not really. You've not made a rational point yet. name-calling is for kids.
@tialoca_talks - very well. shout whatever it is you want to shout, and declaim whatever it is you wish to declaim. It's all good. Time will tell which way the B.S. flows, and only time will tell. Loud shouting only lets the neighborhood know you're afraid.
By the way - this "liberal" doesn't fear gunfire and your penchant for "killing" as you express it in your profile is something worth bragging about perhaps in prison. Folks who do it for food seldom brag about much except perhaps the result of a good hard stalk or a particularly fine shot.
Go right ahead on and talk your talk. it's all good. let me know the next time you've drawn fire, and be sure to include what color your skivvies were right afterward.
@Solarhead - And so is saying "Nah-nah-na-boo-boo" . . . which is the sum total of your moronic arguements.
I don't name call. I identify. You have been identified.
And you tell me what unit you served in, jackass. Then come back here and we'll match your firefights to mine. Its people like you that make me wonder why we even waste our time. You wouldn't know gunfire if it jumped up and bit you in the ass.
@Solarhead - now, now, dear...who's shouting? why is it that you anti christians can't debate without getting overly emotional about it? the profile is called humor..you might try it sometime..and i hunt deer, quail, pheasant, turkey and fish..i eat a lot for free...lighten up, fer crying out loud...also, try staying on topic, if you can...ad hominem attacks on me aren't nearly as interesting as the discussion we were having...you were almost interesting for a minute there...too bad you are just another crappy debater...
@SwordAndSacrifice - this is foolish and pointless, and this will the last time I rise to your bait. Originally, I was joining a conversation, and should have let it go at that, but I allowed you to get under my skin. That was a small error on my part. Now it's over. There's only one more thing I have to say to you be for I go: Engineman Second Class, PBR 163 (that's "patrol boat, river") Mekong Delta 5/1970 to 7/1971. I don''t wish to trade firefight stories with anyone. At all. For any purpose.
Good bye, and may you live in interesting times.
@tialoca_talks - first, not an "anti-christian" at all. I follow very closely and personally Jesus' teachings, and have found that many of the "churches" under His name appear to be of a stripe of "christianity" that seems remarkably similar to what we've come to call "Islamic Extremism". I won't ever side with any organization that promotes one faith over another be adopted as the "national religion", despite whatever politicians might endorse (even Mr. Lincoln). Faith and philosophy are deeply personal and will vary rather widely from one person to another in interpretation, approach, and practice, which our constitution is structured to allow, short of any "faith" or "cult" whose practice is to be in violation of the law of the land.
If your intent in your profile was to convey humor, then I apologize for missing it. My own sense of humor isn't too bad, but the fact is that things get past me from time to time.
There is a difference between saying that "the Founders of America were Christian" and saying that they "believed in the Judeo-Christian ethic" It would be difficult to argue that Benjamin Franklin was a Christian, but I think you could make the argument that his belief system was based on the Biblical principles, and the same goes for Thomas Jefferson.
The second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence is a powerful statement of rights, and equality that are based not on a governement but on the Creator. To me this is the most important statement to remember today, when our government is trying to tell us that we are answerable to them. We are not. We are answerable to our Creator and He is the one that has given us freedom, life and liberty, and it is our right and duty to remove those in power who have taken those divine rights away.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
@Solarhead - And may you live to see the works of your human head and hands come to their full fruition.
applause~~~ \o/ He said that well.
As for the odd comments above (ignoring the personal flaming) why doesn't everyone just do their homework and quit arguing about it? There IS no question. Of course Christianity was never the state religion, because we were founded on religious freedom. Separation of church and state simply meant that no religion was forced on anyone by the state, nor was any religion denied free expression. However, according to history, most of the founding fathers believed in God, and all of them obviously agreed with the Judeo-Christian ethics that are undeniably present in the documents of our country. Quit trying to rewrite history, folks!
Maybe they should have founded it as a Christian nation, since Islam and the atheists now seem determined to do away with religious freedom.